A boy accused of the murder of Brianna Ghey told detectives that he believed messages which allegedly showed them planning the fatal stabbing were his co-defendant "making up stories for a book".
The teenager and a girl, both of whom are aged 16 and cannot be named for legal reasons, are currently standing trial at Manchester Crown Court charged with murdering the 16-year-old, who was knifed in the head, neck, back and chest during a "sustained and violent assault" in Culcheth Linear Park in Warrington on February 11 this year. Girl X, from Warrington, and Boy Y, from Leigh, both deny this count and "blame each other".
Deanna Heer KC told the court during the prosecution's opening last week that messages between the two youths in the weeks and months before the stabbing "showed a preoccupation with violence and torture and death". The then 15-year-olds were also said to have discussed killing other children who they knew.
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Videos of Boy Y's interviews with detectives following his arrest on February 12 2023 continued to be played to a jury of seven men and five women heard yesterday afternoon, Tuesday. During a third round of questioning in February, messages between him and Girl X which were found on his phone were put to him.
In one exchange on WhatsApp, the two were said to have been discussing plans to kill Boy C and Boy S. At one stage, Boy Y said: "I’ll only help kill but that’s all, you’ll have to get rid of the body."
Under questioning, he said he was "just going along with stuff" and added: "I said I will go off and research. I just went on YouTube on funny videos.
"I think she’s still joking. I don’t even know if they’re real people.
"I just don’t want people to not like me. I don’t like not being liked."
In another series of messages, Girl X said: "Boy R is a d*** to me and Boy O. [her boyfriend]. He deserves to die."
Boy Y asked her "how you gonna do it?", to which she replied "got any ideas?". He then told her: "First you have to lure him out.
"So depending on what excuse you use, it can change. Like drugs, if you said you was gonna give him some drugs then you could drug him or if you just invited him to some place you could assassinate him."
Boy Y told detectives: "I use the word assassinate because I still think it’s a game. I don’t think she's trying to murder anybody.
"I don’t really understand how her brain works. A lot of what she says, I try and go along with."
Boy Y went on to say in his messages that he would "research Chinese torture and the death of a thousand cuts" as well as "tickle torture" and "sensory overload". When this was put to him under questioning, he said: "I like to learn about pasts.
"I like to know how they used to punish people. I already knew some of it is impossible to do.
"I was looking through medieval torture, apparently that’s something the Vikings used to do. I think it was pull their lungs out of their back so they look like wings.
"I'm trying to suggest things that I know she would be overjoyed with. I don’t agree with anything I say in the conversations."
Girl X went on to suggest that Boy Y should "distract" Boy R before she stabbed him. He said of this: "I still thought we was joking around.
"I thought I’d play along. It's not really a plan, it's just me joking."
They were also said to have discussed killing Boy E, with Girl X saying of him "just stab him, slit his throat and stab his back". Boy Y added "then hide the body and make it seem like he's ran away", and added: "Could I stab him?"
He told detectives: "I was joking then. I don’t like touching people anyway."
Boy Y was also asked about messages in which Girl X said she "knew a hidden spot in Linear Park" and proposed that Boy Y "lure him out". She told him that she had thought of a "decent plan" and said: "You restrain him and slit his throat and stab him, and then I’ll help."
He replied by asking whether she had "any decent weapons" and went on to say he had a "sharp knife". Under interview, Boy Y said this was a "hunting knife on my phone" which he had shown Girl X a picture of previous.
She continued: "The people we need to kill, Boy E, Boy R and Boy C. Boy E because he’s f***ed up in general and the s*** he’s done, and he’s easy to kill."
Boy Y was then read a message in which he said "we would have to delete his conversation on his phone in case his body is found". He said of this: "I’m playing along with her fantasy.
"She likes to make up lots of stories. I don’t really think she’s serious. I just go along with what she’s saying and give examples of what she could do.
"I don’t think that she’s ever going to do anything. I just think she’s making up these stories to satisfy herself."
Detectives also put to him a message from Girl X which read: "I chopped the first one up and kept two tiny parts for memories then just buried him in a bin bag with bath salts."
Boy Y told them: "I don’t think I responded. I felt a bit sick."
He was asked "what is it that makes you want to impress her so much?", and responded: "I’ve known her a long time. I got used to what she says.
"I want to try and fit in with people. Having the amount of friends I do, I try not to lose them."
The detective continued: "Has she got a hold over you in any way?"
Boy Y replied: "No."
When asked if he was "frightened of her" he nodded his head went on to say this was because of "everything, things I've seen". The detective went on to ask: "What have you seen, other than the incident where you say that you’ve seen her stab Brianna?"
Boy Y said: "I've not seen her do anything else, but I think I go about fearing that she’s going to try and come after me for saying any of this stuff. I thought she was just harmless, trying to make up stories."
The interview then turned to messages the two had exchanged concerning Brianna. Boy Y was read a message in which Girl X told him: "I’m obsessed over someone I know, but I don’t have feelings for them.
"It's weird, she’s called Brianna. Also she had a d*** lol."
Boy Y responded by asking "is it a femboy or a tr***y?, after which Girl Y said: "Trans. She just looks like a girl, even sounds like a girl."
He went on to tell her: "I don’t think you’re necessarily in love. I think you’re more curious and intrigued by its unnatural nature.
"You find it interesting because the majority of people aren’t trans. It’s like you’re going to a funeral and one person is wearing pink, you’re going to be fascinated by their difference."
Boy Y was asked why he had referred to Brianna as "it", and said: "When I speak to my friends, I think that we make jokes about gayness. I don’t actually care if anyone if gay or not.
"With them, I make it seem like I do. It doesn’t really affect me.
"I think they joke about it, but there are bisexual people in our friend group I think. I do know some guys are gay, but I don’t know them."
Messages in which Girl X spoke about giving Brianna a "pill overdose" were then put to him Boy Y said: "I didn’t know she was actually trying to kill anyone.
"I thought she was just giving me names and saying that she’d do something, but she’d just got back from holiday and could she just give her pills. I just thought she was just making up stories."
Boy Y was also read a message in which he said "I want to see if it will scream like a man or a girl". He said of this: "I was trying to appease her and bring my curiosity to life, to make it seem like I’m more of a friend to her."
The messages continued with Girl X saying: "Let's kill Brianna tomorrow then, get Boy E next week. We need to think of a plan."
Boy Y asked her "how are we gonna kill it?", and she responded "what do you think is best?". He said: "Well, you say its got depression.
"Pills would be best. Guess we could slit her wrists.
"But the body plan is first. If we know what we’re doing with the body, we will know what we can and can't do."
He told detectives: "I’m trying to follow along with the story. I just hate not being included with friends."
Boy Y was asked if he thought their messages were "getting a little bit out of hand", and replied: "I thought it was wrong.
"I never told her that it was wrong because I knew it would make her not like me. I’m just still thinking it’s her making up stories in her head."
Another message from Girl X was then read to him, in which she said: "Meet me at the wooden posts in Linear at 12. We'll go over plan again and I’ll show you where I’m killing her, and then we both walk to the library to meet her.
"Grab on to Brianna, slit her throat. When she starts to fall, stab her in the back then pass me the knife.
"I want to stab her at least once, even if she’s dead. Just cos it's fun, lol."
Boy Y went on to suggest: "Let's have two words. One for getting the knife ready, and another to stab."
Girl X went on to reply: "For get knife ready, I’ll look at you and cough. To stab, I’ll say gay."
Boy Y said of this in his interview: "I just thought if she was making up a story then I could help her with it. She told me that she’s writing a book, so I thought she was maybe making up another story for the book.
"I always think that she’s joking around, because you never believe what she’s saying. She’s not trustworthy in that way, you never know what she’s saying is true or not.
"I just thought that she’s writing a book. It’s possible that she’s just been making all these stories to go into a book, and she was just using me as a way to create these stories to better it."
When asked about the day of the stabbing, Boy Y said: "I didn’t think anyone was bringing a knife. She talks about killing people often.
"I’ve never seen anything to do with it, the news about people dying that links her. So I just think she’s joking."
A detective asked him "at what point it would have stopped being a joke", to which he replied: "I'd seen that she was carrying a knife. I would have questioned it."
Boy Y was further asked whether the "joke had gone too far", and he said: "Yeah, I see it now. But then I didn’t notice it."
He also said of Girl X: "She’s always on about how much she loves death and murderers and how she likes to do stuff. I thought that’s just the way she acted.
"I thought I was just gonna meet up with her and chat with her about how life’s been, cos she’s been a bit worse lately. She’s had more hallucinations and stuff.
"She can’t tell whether her hallucinations are real or not, and they were getting worse. I wanted to go and check if she was ok or not."
In the aftermath of the incident, Boy Y said he was considering "whether he should tell the police" and was "scared that she was gonna try and stab me to try and cover up any loose ends". He told detectives that he was "shaking" and not eating.
The trial, before Mrs Justice Yip, continues. It is expected to last three to four weeks in total.
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